Broadcasted for the first time in 2004, North & South (based on Elizabeth Gaskell’s novel with the same name), quickly became a smashing hit. For some fans, this series can even be considered a worthy rival of BBC’s Pride and Prejudice and Mr Thornton challenges the place Mr Darcy has in our hearts as the most memorable (and sexy!) classical literary hero.
Set in Victorian England, this is the story of Margaret Hale, a well bred middle class Southerner who is forced to move North to Milton and discovers a way of life and priorities very different from the ones she was used to. Everything seems dirty and uncivilised and her opinion of the town and its people is immediately formed. When she visits one of the town’s cotton mills to speak to Mr Thornton, the owner, she is shocked and horrified to find him beating one of his employees who had been caught smoking in the weaving room. Later, she befriends a mill worker and his daughter, which will make her aware of the workers’ difficulties but will also lead to a strained and tumultuous relationship with Thornton, who is immediately attracted to the strong-willed young woman. If in the beginning Margaret seems to despise the handsome mill owner, her feelings will slowly change while getting to know him better, and discovers that under his harsh attitude hides a great concern about his mill and his workers.
To kick off the discussion we thought of a few questions about the story in general, you’re welcome to ask your own or speak about what you find more interesting. Later on we’ll be discussing each episode on its own.
- Why did you first watch N&S?
- What did you like the most?
- Have you read the book? Do you think the adaptation does it justice?
- If you read the book, which are the scenes you would like to see included in the TV series?
- Who is your favourite character and why?
- Which is you favourite scene?
- Would you compare Gaskell’s Mr Thornton to Austen’s Mr Darcy?
- What do you think stands out more in N&S, the love story or the social and economical problems?
Of course we are going to answer them ourselves. :)
We would like to give a very special thanks to the Richard Armitage Online website for being nice enough to allow us to use their screencaps.
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Have I the honor of kick starting the discussion? Well, it’s one good thing about living in a GMT+1 country :)
I’ve read the book as soon as I finished watching the series, couldn’t resist. I felt it did it justice, but I always tend to be lenient towards adapted classics, or else I would have had too many heart attacks by now.
One of the things that can balance out a disappointed is to notice certain details that I’m sure are a sort of wink to readers. Have you ever has this feeling? I’m talking about little subtleties that still make sense in the movie but that only people who’ve read the book know their full meaning. I always take them as a way for the director/screenwriter to say “dear readers and lovers of the book, forgive my bending to commercial constraints, but just so you know I’m one of you, here’s this little gift.”
In N&S there’s this scene where Margaret is serving tea to Mr Thornton. He looks (what a look…) at her hands and she’s wearing a bracelet. When I first saw it, I though he was simply admiring her hands, but it turned out that that became one of my favorite parts in the book. There, he’s hypnotized not with her hands, but at how her set of bracelets goes up and down her wrists as she moves. The mental image it creates is beautiful.
Here are my answers :)
- Why did you first watch N&S?
I found out about the serie a couple of years ago while browsing one of those listmania in amazon.uk. The person who recommended the serie was a huge fan of Pride & Prejudice. Since I’m a big fan of the serie myself, I decided to give it a try. :D
- What did you like the most?
Can I say everything?;-) I instantely fell in love with the serie but I have to confess that I do have a preference for victorian settings.
- Have you read the book? Do you think the adaptation does it justice?
Yes and yes. Even if I would like to see some scenes more developped, I think the adaptation really catches the essence of the story. Some changes were made, like the way John and Margaret meet for the first time and the train station scene but I do understand it was necessary.
- If you read the book, which are the scenes you would like to see included in the TV series?
The riot scene. I would like to see more of it and the afterwards. It would be perfect to see more of John’s feelings and doubts and how he tries to deal with them.
- Who is your favourite character and why?
Mrs Thornton. When you start to know her, you see why John fell in love with Margaret. They are both strong women who would fight for what they believe. Hannah Thornton is a deep caring mother who loves her son more than anything and you can feel her strength each times she shows up (in the serie, Sinead Cusak is just perfect!).
- Which is you favourite scene?
This is a hard one and I cannot only chose one. My three favorite scenes: when they touch each other’s hand during tea at Margaret’s house, when Margaret leaves to London and John stays at the door and says: “Look back!” and finally, when they meet at the station.
- Would you compare Gaskell’s Mr Thornton to Austen’s Mr Darcy?
For me, they don’t have much in common. Well, they are both carismatic handsome men (who can resist those, right?!;-)) but they come from very different backgrounds and they have also different personalities and purposes in their lives.
- What do you think stands out more in N&S, the love story or the social and economical problems?
There’s a perfect balance between both. I don’t see them separated, they are intimately connected.
:D
1)Why did you first watch N&S?
Quite a few people on a message board I frequent kept recommending this series and I just go so curious I had to order it to see what they were all raving about
2)What did you like the most?
*laughing* What Didn’t I like about it? Although there is so much to recommend this series, what I enjoyed the most I think is the core love story between John and Margaret
3)Have you read the book? Do you think the adaptation does it justice?
No, I haven’t read the book, but I plan on getting a copy today as a matter of fact
4)If you read the book, which are the scenes you would like to see included in the TV series?
Well *g* this one doesn’t apply
5)Who is your favourite character and why?
That would be John Thornton and not because Richard Armitage is so fine to watch – although that certainly helps. It’s seeing him revealed over the course of the series – since this is all I’ve seen this is all I can comment on. When we first see him, he appears as this rather brutish mill owner who treats his employees very harshly. We gradually see him as a very compassionate, honourable man who puts his employees needs first. And RA portrays beautifully, his heartbreak and yearning for Margaret until the final scene where he is relaxed and truly smiles for the first time.
6) Which is you favourite scene?
Well, being the romance lover I am, that would of course be the train station scene but if I can give a couple of honourable mentions, the one where Margaret is driving away and he tells her to look back. And the one where he and Higgins are sitting talking after Higgins finishes work and they are discussing ways to get better prices for meat.
7)Would you compare Gaskell’s Mr Thornton to Austen’s Mr Darcy?
Alas – I haven’t seen the previous version of P&P – only the one with Keira Knightely, but Thornton’s character is much more developed than the Darcy in the version I’ve seen
8)What do you think stands out more in N&S, the love story or the social and economical problems?
For me it’s the love story. Although the social and economic problems are what makes this such a rich and fascinating series.
* I first watched N&S because my fellow bloggers suggested it was mandatory for all P&P fans to watch this series. I was sent it, I watched it and the rest is history! That’s why this blog exists!
* I think what I did like the most is how well it shows the 19th century reality both it’s social and economical aspects but also the relationship between people and the restraint and surpressed passion between 2 people that so obviously love each other for at least half the story but can’t let that be shown.
* I did read the book and I do think the adaptation does it justice but it is true that some things are only understood after you read the book so I think we need an extended adaptation – at least 6 episodes because there are a lot of scenes in the book that should have been filmed and weren’t.
* Among the scenes I would like to see filmed are the scene where John takes Margaret inside after the riot and speaks to her. And I think I would prefer to watch the “foolish passion” scene as it was written in the book.
* My favourite scene… hmm that’s a hard one!! I think I particularly liked the riot scene and the following dialogue between John and his mother about Margaret. Because he shows a very vulnerable side and I like that.
* I think I’ll go with the less obvious choice of Hannah Thornton. It’s her relationship with John that makes us realise his more human side.We can easily feel Hannah’s love for her son and how his happiness is important to her. In a way she and Margaret are very alike and in different circumstances the antagonism between the 2 might not have existed.
* I think we tend to compare Mr Darcy and Mr Thornton because of 2 things: how strongly fascinating were the portrayals by Colin Firth and Richard Armitage and because there’s a failed first marriage proposal in both stories. Other than that I think we know Thornton a lot better than Darcy and the realities of both stories are so different that I apreciate them both but in different ways. Now I feel the need of a P&P reread!
* Well my romantic side was much more interested in the love story at first but as I watched it again it’s easy to see that there is so much more to analyse and appreciate in this story. I would say both are equally important to the story and they are equally treated.
Well my romantic side was much more interested in the love story at first but as I watched it again it’s easy to see that there is so much more to analyse and appreciate in this story. I would say both are equally important to the story and they are equally treated.
I agree. While the love story is what drew me in first, if it was just that, the impact wouldn’t be so strong. Each needs the other and that is what makes this so powerful.
Okay, so Hannah Thornton was the less obvious choice only till I read Alex’s answers… :-P
Xana you are so right when you mention those small details whose significance we only understand after reading the book.
Kristie(J) if your favourite character is John Thornton you just have to read the book. Gaskell does a brilliant job of revealing his character and his feelings.
Ana: I’m looking forward to reading it. And on the subject of Hannah, I thought she was a brilliant character but I couldn’t help thinking she would make a very scary mother-in-law *g*
Yes she was a bit over protective wasn’t she? But I liked her and the fact that we get to know John through their conversations. And of course Sinead Cusak does a great job!
In the book my favourite characters are John and Margaret. Can’t decide which I like the most…
1. I watched N&S purely by chance. It was a random pick from an on-line video store. I recognised the name, saw it was a period drama and clicked the button. What luck!
2. I liked all of it! From the beginning I was hooked. But I think I mostly liked John and Margaret’s story.
3. Yes, I read the book after watching the DVD. And yes, I think the adaptation does it justice. However, I agree with Ana that a couple more hours would have really allowed a bit more of the ‘feel’ of the book to come through.
4. Hmm… off the top of my head, I can’t think of any scenes I feel should have been included.
5. My favourite character is John (and not just ‘cos of Richard!). I was intrigued by him after watching the DVD, but facinated after I had read the book.
6. My favourite scene? It’s a close call, but it has to be the ‘look back at me’ scene. Soooo romantic!
7. At first, I did compare Thornton and Darcy. But having just re-read P&P, I don’t think they’re similar at all. I feel Thornton’s character has a better understanding of himself – which is why, I think, his feelings for Margaret are so facinating for the reader/viewer, and also his responses to the other characters and the political situation.
8. Initially, it was the love story. Having watched it again (and again, and again!) and read the book, I – as other people here – see them as two sides of the same coin.
Also, I wonder if someone could help me with the following questions. I read the book a while ago and it was a library copy (my own copy hasn’t arrived in time for this discussion) so I can’t go back and check.
1. Were the Latimers (the banker and his daughter) in the book?
2. Did Mr Bell propose in the book?
3. Do other people here feel that Mr Bell was portrayed in the series as being a little more malicious than he was portrayed in the book?
4. Did you get the impression from the book that Thornton was an ‘angry’ man? I gather that this is why our introduction to him in the series is as it is. But I never really felt he was ‘angry’. Complex, and often rudely honest, but not really angry. Personally, I wish that they had come up with some other way to highlight the differences between Thornton and Margaret than him being physically violent. Comments?
Hi Dee,
No, the Latimers don’t exist in the book. I seem to remember a comment by Sandy Welch, who wrote the script, saying she invented Anne Latimer to give Margaret some competition. I think it’s in the commentary on episode 4.
And no Mr Bell didn’t propose. He was more of a father figure in the book and he was not as malicious as in the TV series. Not sure why they made him propose in the series…
I agree, I also didn’t feel he was angry. In the book Margaret dislike of him is based on prejudice against tradesmen and manufacturers. I guess they felt a modern audience wouldn’t think that important enough and decided to come up with something schocking. That scene also has 2 sides I think, at first you dislike him because he is beating a defenseless man but when you find out why you are torn between understanting it (because smoking in the weaving room was indeed a danger) and still disliking him. Remember Higgins told Margaret that Thornton had done the right thing (or words to that effect). At least that’s my take on it!
Ola Ana T,
I so get what you mean about the understanding and still the dislike – that’s exactly how I felt! I felt somewhat molified by Higgins comment, but couldn’t quite get over the extent of the violence used.
As to introducing Anne Latimer for competition (I haven’t been able to see the episode 4 comentary, just the episode 1 commentary), I have to say I’m a bit disappointed by that – in my opinion, it just doesn’t fit with anything in the book. The problems between John and Margaret being due to a third party was never even slightly hinted at in the book, but were social and philisophical. So to create one in the series seems very odd – and it didn’t work anyway, Margaret didn’t seem to feel threatened (except for that one look at the Frannie’s wedding!).
I didn’t think him an angry man either other than that first scene and we quickly saw Why he was angry. At the first ‘official’ meeting of John and Margaret, he was discussing philosophy with her father and right off the bat he came across – at least to me – as a man hungering for discussions of ‘higher’ things.
And I didn’t see Bell so much as malicious as a s&^%t disturber. He liked to drop his little bombs and see what happened. I have a question though. In the book (which I didn’t get since I had to work late) do we see what happens to him? In the movie he just seemed to be there one moment and gone the next.
I would be curious to see if there were many deleted scenes because watching the series, while put together very, very well – seemed to be missing something in a few scenes.
Hi Kristie(J),
Yes we do see what happens to Mr Bell in the book. In my opinion, Mr Bell is a character that I feel the series misrepresented to quite an extent.
Hey Dee,
I agree that Margaret doesn’t seem to be much threatened by Anne and one thing that always puzzled me was when they meet in the street after the proposal – Mr Bell, Margaret, Thornton, Latimer and his daughter – Thornton leaves taking Anne Latimer with him but it doesn’t seem like he even looks at her before. Why did he grab her arm and left with her? Margaret does look back then :-)
Hi Kristie(j)
I think you will find those missing scenes in the books yes. The book has several scenes of the characters thinking about their actions which explains a lot. Especially in Margaret’s case in the series she has no one to talk to about her feelings and it’s just by her expressions and looks that we have a clue of what she is feeling. The book goes much deeper than that and we follow the change in Margaret’s feelings.
Hey Ana t,
Well, there you go!I never clicked that Thornton took Anne with him in that scene – I always wondered where she went and why her father made that comment about the wedding! I can’t work out how come I missed all that! I shall have to have another look at the DVD :)
I never noticed he took her either? And I’ve watched it a number of times now. She just seemed to disappear into thin air.
And I got myself a copy of the book tonight and now I’m anxious to read it.
I was wondering something though. Is John Thornton as compelling and charismatic a character in the book as he is in the series?
And a question of my own :) What does everyone think of the final train station scene? I know realistically they wouldn’t kiss like that in public in that time period, but for me it really works since we can’t see their thoughts, it’s a Very Romantic visual of how deeply they loved each other and they are finally ready to let the other one know.
Well I just gave you both a good reason to go and watch it again ;-)
Yes, to me he is even more compelling and charismatic in the book.
I did like the train station scene because it’s beautiful and romantic but you are right, it’s also very modern and a big change from all those repressed feelings we had previously. The ending in the book is different but I found it just as romantic!
I agree with Ana on both counts! Yes, I think he is just as compelling, if not more, in the book. And while I really love the ending in the book, especially the last couple of lines, I can see why it would be hard to translate on to the screen, so I think the train station scene is an excellent compromise.
It’s beautiful isn’t it?
Looking forward to Kristie(J)’s opinion on the book!
I’ve just watched the scene on the street again. I had to watch it twice before I saw that he walked off with Anne! Well spotted Ana!! I think the thing that threw me was that it didn’t look like he walked up with Anne and her father – so why would he walk off with her? All a tad confusing!
I’ve wondered about that often enough… especially because he doesn’t seem to pay a lot of attention to Anne when she first arrives with her father does he?
But he does have a very angry look in that scene!
Yes! He does look angry, but I forgive him – he has Mr Bell meddlling away, he’s just been rejected by the love of his life and his business is faltering…who wouldn’t be stressed and angry?!!! – says Dee who would forgive Mr Thornton just about anything!!
I’ve been away during all this discussion and I saw that I missed some great conversations here. :)
Ana T. apparently, we both like Hannah Thornton but it’s true that if we compare her character in the serie and the book, we don’t get the same feeling. She is still a strong woman and that deep connection with her son is still there but in a more subtle way. But I do agree with Kristie, she would make a scary mother-in-law. ;-)
The first time I read the book, I search for the Latimers all over. I just couldn’t understand why was there any need to create new characters for a story already so rich. Of course, the producers felt the need to spicy up a bit Margaret’s and John’s relationship but I really didn’t felt it was necessary. Besides, each time Anne was around, I barely noticed (same for John it seems!) and I’ve got the feeling she was only decorating.
Now, I wanted to ask something to those who read the book: do you agree with the train station scene? Do you think it brings something else to the story? Or is it just a better end (compared to the original one writen by Gaskell)?
Hi Alex and welcome back!
Have you realised Anne Latimer never speaks in all the scenes she appears in? I think you are right, decorating only!
I think the train station scene is a more modern way of showing their feelings. We could analise it frame by frame but I think they changed the end mainly because they felt it was more romantic to the audiences to have the couple showing their feelings openly and kissing.
I think the end in the book is very romantic too but maybe in pictures it wouldn’t be as easy to convey their emotions.
Now I have a question of my own. I have always wondered in the middle of all those behaviour codes and restrictions how Margaret had the courage to put her arms around Thornton during the riot scene and why. Feeling responsabile for putting him in danger is enough to explain it? Or did she already had feelings for him that she hasn’t acnowledged yet? She is always so proper and there she clearly does something not acceptable in the eyes of society and that makes her the tittle tattle of Milton…
I’m halfway through the book and will only answer our questions when I’m done, so I don’t want to read your comments until then. ;-)
I just wanted to say that reading the book has given me a whole different perspective to the series and the characters, I’m sure I’ll change my mind but up until now in the book Margaret is a snotty and uppity character and not at all like the Margaret we meet in the series. There are so many small changes that I want to comment on but I’ll wait until our episode by episode review! :-)
Yes!! I particularly remember her face in the Great Exhibition in London. Geesh, what an annoyed (and insipid!)look!
I do agree with you about the train station scene, Ana T. the original ending was more suitable for Victorian times and maybe modern audiences would want to see a more powerful meeting between the two of them were we could actually see each others feelings.
When I saw that riot scene, I immediately thought Margaret reacted before thinking twice and tried to protect him at all costs (maybe there was also some guilt in there after her reaction just before John faced the crowd). I’m sure she had already some tender feelings for Thornton but she was so proud and so full of prejudice that she couldn’t imagine herself in love for such a man. In her mind, it wasn’t proper for a lady of her station to be with a tradesman.
Hi there,
In response to Ana T’s question, I agree with Alex. I think that in the heat of the moment, Margaret didn’t think, but just instinctively protected. (I wonder if that instinct to protect overrides all social norms, be they in Victorian England or modern day Europe?)
Yes, I do think that she had feelings for him already. I think that she just doesn’t understand them though because she thinks that she shouldn’t – because of the class thing.
Finally, I never really felt that Margaret was that proper. Sure, she conformed to the rules most of the time, but when it didn’t suit her to do so, she bent them, more obviously as time went by. She befriended Bessy, got involved in politics etc. to a greater depth than one would expect.
Personally, she struck me as a very strong-willed young woman (I guess she had to be with weak parents like that!), one used to getting her own way. I think this is why she was so taken aback when she came up against Mr Thornton who didn’t back down from opposing her.
I’m still going by the miniseries only – which I watched again on the weekend by the way – and I did catch the part where John walked away with Anne Latimer. It was very quick and very easy to miss. I think the only reason I noticed it this time through was because I was watching for it.
By the time of the riot, I think she had deep feelings for Thornton, even if she might not have realized it yet. At the dinner party, they can’t seem to keep their eyes off each other, especially Margaret. She tracks him all through the room from the moment she hears his voice when he enters. I love that part!
Oh I also love the dinner party scene, definitely some feelings there! So yes I agree with you all, I think she already had some feelings for him when she saves him during the riot.
Although that is only clear in the extended proposal scene refusing him seems to be because she is mad at what she heard his sister say and because she feels Fanny and Mrs Thornton believe she is trying to ensnare him. She doesn’t even give him time to speak before she refuses him very rudely… by the time he reveals his feelings things have already gone wrong…
Totally agree with you, Dee. Margaret isn’t proper at all! When she arrives to Milton she breaks every social rule! Her ungracious comments about the town, her friendship with the workers (so not ladylike!! ;-) ), her walks alone in the most difficult part of town and especially her arguments with Mr Thornton or even his mother. Margaret is used to have her way and she isn’t ashamed to speak her mind.
Now, that proposal scene made something very clear to me, Margaret was already in love for John Thornton. Even if I find John terribly charming, I also think he was a little abrupt to propose like that. I do understand he is a passionate man (oh my, oh my!*sigh*) but he couldn’t miss the fact that he and Margaret were not in the best terms. ;-) Anyway, their differences were still in the way and I couldn’t see them together already. Mrs Thornton and Fanny didn’t help much either…
In my opinion Margaret is far from being a lady, she gives herself airs when in fact she’s a nobody, but that’s something I only noticed from reading the book, in the series I liked her from the start and thought she was a sweet girl. Mrs Thornton is right when she says she’s not worthy of her son, at least at first!
In the riot scene she obviously had feelings for him already, part of it was probably guilt for sending him out there but the rest was a need to protect. But I don’t think she was aware of it at the time or she probably didn’t want to accept the fact she was in love with someone from the worker class.
Something else I didn’t get from the series was Margaret’s coldness, when Bessy dies she’s almost disgusted with the idea of seeing a dead person, she doesn’t show any kind of feelings for someone who was supposedly a friend.
I agree that Margaret is not a lady but I assumed she was educated with Edith in London and learned the proper code of behaviour of young ladies. Then she is returned to her parents and they confide their problems in her which leads her to adopt a self-sufficient atitude and try to decide things and solve problems. I think she comes across as being young, idealistic and trying to help people but she also has a sense of her class and status that leads her to look at traders and manufacturers as being below her. Another thing is that she feels there is much more misery and suffering in the north than in the south and she believes that is due to the industry, this leads to some interesting dialogues and some antagonism with Thornton.
I think I looked at the friendship with Bessy more like a charity case and not that they were friends in equal terms. Margaret visits and takes baskets with offerings just like she would do in Helstone with her father’s parishioners. And yes she does have an opinion on politics but she just really interferes in the riot scene. And taking the baskets to Boucher’s children… I think her father treated her as an equal in what concerns political and social discussions and that’s why she was especially aware of it.
When she finds herself at fault, being with Frederick at the station, she does feel strongly that she is in the wrong even if the wrong is not what everyone else assumes. And she feels tortured that she can’t tell Thornton the truth.
Of course the fact that she is so headstrong when voicing some of her opinions doesn’t win her any friends.
Now that I think about it, perhaps the relationship between Bessy and Margaret was protrayed as more equal in the series than in the book? – just a thought.
And Ana O, I’m glad you brought up the bit about her going to Bessy when she had died. After I read the book the first time I was curious about what appeared to be women not going to funerals. From a quick search on the net, it seemed that ‘well bred’ women didn’t go due to the excess of emotion (note that Margaret had to argue with her father to go to her mother’s funeral, and didn’t go to her father’s funeral). So it seemed to me, when I re-read that bit, that Margaret was more taken aback at something so out of her way of thinking than unfeeling towards Bessy. I thought it did her credit that she then went and saw Bessy!
Having said all this, I really liked Margaret, so I may be making excuses for her!
Oh! One more thing! In the book, Margaret notes Mr Thornton’s brilliant smile – perfect teeth and yummy eyes. I’m kind of disappointed that, in my opinion, we don’t see him REALLY smile in the series. Little quirks here and there, but nothing really unguarded – except perhaps when he sees her at the dinner party and then again at the table when she says that she thinks one should see both sides of a problem, he smiles a bit then.
I really liked Margaret when watching the series and in the book I’m learning to (not finished with it yet), she does change a lot and that’s something we don’t get in the adaptation, she grows as a human being.
I had no idea “well bred” women didn’t go to funerals, looking at it from that point it does change out perspective, maybe that’s why she was so “disgusted” with the idea of seeing a dead body. Thanks for the tidbit Dee! ;-)
Oh Dee you’ve made me realise how much I would have liked it if Mr Thornton had smiled a bit more…
I also had no idea about the funerals, thanks!!
Why did you first watch N&S?
Well, everyone kept looking at me funny when I said I’d never heard of it *or* Richard Armitage. ;)
What did you like the most?
The love story, obviously, because it’s the most important part of the series. And the photography – I loved all the clothes, locations, the colors, everything.
Have you read the book? Do you think the adaptation does it justice?
Not yet, but I’m going to buy it today. While watching the series, sometimes it felt like there was something missing, some explanation, some back-up story to better understand the characters and situations. My guess is, reading the book will clear everything up.
If you read the book, which are the scenes you would like to see included in the TV series?
Will get back to you later.
Who is your favourite character and why?
Margaret. Because even though she wasn’t as strong a character as Lizzie from P&P, she still had a very strong presence. And I agree that Hannah Thorton is also very interesting.
Which is you favourite scene?
“Look back! Look back!” :)
Oh, and I loved the end of episode one, beginning of episode two, with the cotton flying and the machines working. A very beautiful scene, and a pertfect musical score.
Would you compare Gaskell’s Mr Thornton to Austen’s Mr Darcy?
Well, as much as Richard Armitage was perfect for the role, I still prefer Colin Firth’s Mr. Darcy. As for the characters, I think they’re too different to compare.
What do you think stands out more in N&S, the love story or the social and economical problems?
The love story, because even though we get a glimpes of the social problems, they’re never fully explored.
why did i watch it?
i dunno i just watched a trailer on youtube and wouldn’t rest until i watched the film.
what did i like the most?
the love story and the suspense where they are not together.
have you read the book?
sadly no.
what is your favorite character?
Probably mr thornton. at first i thought him cruel but then when he was in love with margaret you could see his true character and he wasn’t proud or anything like that either.
which is your favorite scene?
probably the train station although i do love the riot, the look back scene and the one where she hugs her brother.
Would you compare mr thornton to mr darcy?
no way. although mr darcy is great mr thornton is way better he is so much nicer and easier to feel sorry for when she refuses him.
which stands out more the love or the social/economical problems?
Both stand out but personally being a true romntic i prefer the love side.
I haven’t watched this yet, but I do know that I am getting it for Christmas…because I bought it for myself last night, and then my son wanted a present to by me, so I said that he could give me that! Now I just have to remember to act surprised when I unwrap the present (and yes, I will have to wrap my own present too!)
LOL Marg, I hope you enjoy it as much as we did! Looking forward to know your thoughts!!
im Writing this fresh form reading the book and re watching the series. Yes I am officially obsessed.
Firstly I do think the series does the book justice through several factors. The story is not sacrificed overly when it comes to the development of characters. The obvious network choice would have been to develop the characters of Margaret and Thornton far more compressively then developing the social factors pertaining such importance. This is problem with a lot of classic adaptations: context is insufficient. I also feel that the shifting and contemporizing of several scenes (I’m thinking the ending in the series is a modern refreshment of the justifications Gaskell offers in her ending) brings north and south, its story and characters, into the realm of the 21st century in a profound and unforgettable way.
I agree with Xana’s very first comment that sandy Welch’s screenplay was filled with subtleties of the book that could not be transformed visually and i think this is a credit both to the series and to the reader. Once having read the complexities of character, context and form in Gaskell’s work the emotion and sheer luminosity of the series can be felt with its full intensity. This is why, I think, we fall so damn hard for these character! They are human to us and they are covered with all of these responsibilities.
I really see very little likeness between Darcy and Thornton. Darcy was a gentleman; owned property, had business that was not developed of overly divulged to the reader/viewer. I feel that having Thornton selfhood being central to his business was a device which proved a viable definition of such a strong, complex and intense character. I agree with what others have said when they see Thornton as being more aware of himself, and at time damn sentimental and Romantic. I see him portrayed in the series as a more Rochester/Heathcliff type. All dark and brooding. As well in the book the Bronte’s influence (most significantly charlotte’s) on her work is clear with Thornton being “brooding, smoldering” and at time quite rude to the exterior world while he was a tumult of wild passion. It’s interesting!!
finally though i am confused, or rather a tad unsure about how i stand with the Mr. bell propopsal in both the series and the novel. it was far clearer in the series eyt there is a definate hint in the novel. what would be the point, in narriative terms, of having bell propose to her? very odd.
Man I have talked too much but as you can all imagine I am still on a high from reading the whole novel in one day!
I loved both the series and the book and I agree the series does the book justice. There are a few scenes from the book however that I would have liked to see in the series. Ahh and now I feel like rereading and rewatching both…
Fantastic TV series, as only the British an do, and equally good book.
I have always wondered about the significance of the gloves he left after his proposal (end of Episode 4, Part 1).
Why did you first watch N&S?
My friend studied it at school and recommended it after I mentioned I had watched the kiss on youtube.. and wanted to see the rest of the series.
What did you like the most?
The costumes and the era. The way the culture shapes their lives and I love how they all have decorum and values.
Have you read the book? Do you think the adaptation does it justice?
I haven’t yet. I bought it last week and was about to read it when said friend told me it ended differently. Which is how I ended up here, because I wanted to make sure I would still like the book – so it didn’t ruin the movie for me.
If you read the book, which are the scenes you would like to see included in the TV series?
Ill have to get back to you on that one..
Who is your favourite character and why?
I don’t think I really have a favourite, just ones I liked a little bit less than the others. I suppose you can’t really go wrong with Thorton though.
Which is you favourite scene?
Strangely enough, people are mentioning the hand/tea scene because of the book – but this is one of my favourite scenes.. and I havent read it yet. I love it, just like in P&P when they have shots of Darcy’s hands and his reaction to touching Elizabeth. Train scene :)
Would you compare Gaskell’s Mr Thornton to Austen’s Mr Darcy?
Not really, who says we can’t have both. Equally as yummy.
What do you think stands out more in N&S, the love story or the social and economical problems?
I think the social and economical problems, which in a way I like, because you can cling onto the love story amongst their reality.
x
Hi Fiona, I hope you enjoy the book! I think you will, it does end differently but we get to know Mr Thornton a lot better! :-)
Hi Fiona!
Ana T., is right! Even if the end of the book is different from the series (also some other scenes, like how Margaret and John meet), it’s also quite wonderful. It’s definitely a must-read for all North & South fans. ;-) Have fun!
Hi Fiona, I agree with both Ana T and Alex. I really enjoyed the different ending in the book.
I absolutely loved the movie and I read the book because of it.
I appreciated the fact that the author did not confine herself to the female writer role of mid 19th century. Her direct attack at social issues was to be admired.
I of course loved the love story too. I loved the evolution of Margaret, her determination, her response to hard ships and her ability to move on, admirable. Well, as far the John Thornton’s is concerned, it was an absolutely interesting character and it was equally played beautifully by Armitage.
Sinead Cusak also played her role fantastically well. One could understand her actions, and the reasons behind them clearly. One could feel how she felt, and how mere poule she was.
I strongly recommend both movie and the book….
… Very nice love story and a great read for social tension of the 19th century industrialization.
I just finished watching it. I’m spent. That was so absorbing and romantic! The “look at me…look back at me” broke my heart! and his telling his mother “I daren’t hope a woman like that could love me” UGH such a wounded little bunny!!!! The kiss at the end, heck even the small hand touches throughout were making my head swim :)
Why did you first watch N&S?
Well, I just looooove Jane Austen, and out there, in the web, many people have said that Gaskell’s works look a lot like Jane’s, so I read the book, and felt in love with it imediatelly! I already knew about the series, so it was my next step!
What did you like the most?
Uh… Everything? Really, I love how well they could put both the love story and the problems of 19th century society like that.
Have you read the book? Do you think the adaptation does it justice?
Yes and yes. Altough I think that some things shouldn’t be missing.
If you read the book, which are the scenes you would like to see included in the TV series?
The one where John brings Margaret to the house and says he loves her!
Who is your favourite character and why?
It’s obvious, but it’s Margaret. She is a women living in a moment that it was really hard to do what she really taught was the right. She is so prejudiced and has so many faults that you just want to see how she’ll change in the course of the story.
Which is your favourite scene?
The “Look back at me” scene! I really screamed to the screen, I’ll look, I’ll look! And the train station too, of course!
Would you compare Gaskell’s Mr Thornton to Austen’s Mr Darcy?
Nope! They are both strong caracters, but they are really very different from each other. I think Margaret looks more like Darcy, she is the prejudiced one. She is just more polite than Darcy. But I love both of them! Either could come to me and propose me! If in the Colin or Richard version the much the better!
What do you think stands out more in N&S, the love story or the social and economical problems?
That’s why I love Mrs. Gaskell so much! The story, both the book and the series, has all those aspects that make it all much more amusing! It’s not just about love, and not just about the victorian society, is, above all, about human nature, and that’s why it kicks asses!